Interview with Filmmaker Eric McGinty
Scene from Eric McGInty’s film, STOCKADE, starring Sarah Bitar which will premiere at the Woodstock Film Festival September 29th.
September 2023 - Williamsburg, Brooklyn
Caterina Verde interviews Director and Writer, Eric McGinty about his feature narrative film, STOCKADE, which will premiere at The Woodstock Film Festival, on September 29th in Woodstock, NY. The film was mostly shot in Upstate New York.
In this immigrant film noir, Ahlam, a Lebanese painter in financial straits, strives to get her artist visa extended so she can stay in New York City. Hoping to improve her circumstances, Ahlam takes a job delivering a parcel upstate, only to get embroiled in a murky scheme. The parcel opens a Pandora’s Box, sparking the emergence of various characters with different degrees of menace who take an interest in this mysterious package and its intriguing courier.
With the intersection of the antiquities trade and the modern-day art world serving as a backdrop, STOCKADE is an updated meditation on the pursuit of the mythic American dream.
Ahlam (Sarah Bitar) hands a package to Richard (Eric McGinty.)
I.
Caterina Verde: Eric, your film, STOCKADE is described as a noir-thriller exploring the intersection of the international antiquities trade in today's art market. So what made you delve into this territory?
Eric McGinty: For a long time, I've been interested in the commodification of the artist, and art in general. My last film, Wallabout, dealt in part with that but from a completely different angle. So I'm continuing to explore art as currency and more broadly, the commodification of the artist. So far in my work, STOCKADE is sort of the second panel in a diptych, maybe it will be a triptych some day, but it’s a second story that’s connected to that idea.
I also wanted to make a film where the central character was an immigrant. Often the immigrant characters in films are side characters instead of the protagonist.
My wife, Anna (Sang Park,) the producer of STOCKADE, met Sarah Bitar at the Stella Adler Acting Studio. Sarah, who plays STOCKADE’s protagonist, Ahlam, is from Lebanon and was studying there. Then I met Sarah and we all hit it off. I saw her in several plays, and I started thinking about a story that could incorporate Sarah as the main character. She is also a trilingual performer, acting in English, Arabic, and French. Being trilingual is a significantly appropriate trait for an immigrant character, since immigrants often speak more languages than many native-born Americans.
I’ve always been attracted to film noir as a genre and my last film Wallabout definitely had film noir elements. That said, I am not necessarily interested in strictly adhering to all of the genre’s conventions, but I am certainly interested in film noir as a framework to explore different themes. And I’ve always been attracted to stories where an everyday character gets caught up in some dilemma that overshadows their ordinary life. Noir films have been known to explore that situation. And I wanted to make a film noir shot upstate. STOCKADE is certainly not the first indie film shot upstate, but you don’t see that many noirs – or at least I haven’t seen many noirs shot upstate. I had this idea of the main character bringing a package up to the Hudson Valley and the package becoming a sort of Pandora’s Box that unleashes all sorts of crazy events.
Previously, I had also written a script that dealt a lot with the antiquities trade, specifically from the Middle East, which continues to be something that’s going on today – way after the American invasion of Iraq 20 years ago. I keep reading about it almost every day in the news. There are various incidents of antiquities theft and then there are established museums that are currently involved in the repatriation of antiquities that they acquired decades ago. They’re basically being shamed into returning them to Greece or Benin or Syria or wherever. It’s something that’s always fascinated me and I used a lot of my research from that other project (that never went into production) and incorporated it into STOCKADE. So that’s pretty much how the story came about. And I’ve always been interested in archaeology, anthropology, and antiquities in general and how it connects with the modern day art world. A lot of antiquities were the art of ancient times, and are still being bought and sold. Just like contemporary artwork. So, that world combined with my keen interest in the struggle of the artist to make a living all came together to create STOCKADE.
CV: And the main actor, Sarah Bitar is Lebanese.
Eric: Yes, she’s from Beirut.
CV: She also plays an artist, a contemporary artist so there’s sort of a paradoxical quality about the art making…
Eric: Yes, that was very intentional. Sarah plays a painter who has recently graduated from an MFA program and is hoping to pursue a career as an artist in New York. A difficult proposition to say the least, but one that is most likely even more challenging in her birth country today.
Ahlam (Sarah Bitar) and Richard (Eric McGinty.)
II.
CV: You were raised both in France and in the United States. Your mother was French and your father American. How do you think your French background has affected your vision as a filmmaker? If it did at all.
Eric: Oh, it definitely did. There’s no doubt about it. I’ve spent about a third of my life living in France. On and Off. But before the age of 25, I spent half my time in France. I grew up there. I was lucky enough to have parents who loved going to the movies and they always took me along. They took me to a lot of mature films. Nothing too gory but what were considered films for adults– when I was younger…
CV: Without the same terminology of what we consider adult films – (laughter)
Eric: (Laughs) That’s right, not pornographic films. Serious films. Films for mature people, I suppose. I saw plenty of American films, Hollywood films, but I was exposed to a lot of European films, particularly French films. I spent a year studying film in France and then I spent two years after college working there in the theater and on a bunch of short films directed by young people but they were publicly financed shorts so they had decent means. When I was in college I also studied film and got exposed to Italian, German, Eastern European films, as well as films from Asia, at the time specifically Japan. I was influenced by French filmmakers like Truffaut, Godard, Agnes Varda, Alain Resnais, Chabrol— people like that were huge influences. My fascination with them has evolved, even though I still like their work. Being half French and half American I’ve always felt sort of at home everywhere but also somewhat alienated in both countries. I think I’ve brought a lot of that to my characters.
CV: This film definitely comes across that way.
Eric: A lot of the people in STOCKADE are not Americans by birth though they might be American now. The main character, Ahlam, is Lebanese. The woman who she meets, Zora, played by Bahar Beihaghi, is Iranian. Then there’s Paul, portrayed by Guy de Lancey, who plays an adjunct professor in America but is originally from South Africa. His wife, we never discuss her nationality, but she’s played by an actor who is originally from Argentina, Paula Pizzi. As far as I’m concerned, the character is originally from Argentina as well. Of course, some characters are born and raised Americans like Linton, who is played by Michael Wiener, and Judy, played by Justine J. Hall, who both acted in my previous feature, Wallabout. Anyway, it’s a very international bunch. Some of the characters are more adapted to living in the States than others. But there is that sense of distance between the characters and where they’re from and where they live.
CV: That’s very interesting. The space between your location and where you're from is a kind of dissonance. A geographical dissonance.
Linton (Michael Wiener)
III.
CV: This film has a strong aesthetic of time and place. Your previous film was also about place and belonging. What was the strongest consideration you had in this process?
Eric: I’ve always been into films where you more or less know where it's happening, when it’s happening. I’ve been attracted to films that have the location or the city backdrop as one of the main characters in the film. My film, Wallabout, was shot in NYC but much of it was centered in Brooklyn, which became one of the main characters in the film. For STOCKADE, some of it was shot in NYC but about half of the film was shot upstate in and around Kingston. I really wanted Kingston to be a character in the film. Films that tend to avoid where the story is happening, when it’s happening, don’t speak to me that much. Sure, we all like dystopian film; there are so many of them out there and some are great…but I tend to be attracted to – and maybe it’s because I’ve always been a history buff, but I like films where you know the era and the location. Maybe that sounds boringly journalistic, but I like a certain documentary aspect.
CV: We were also talking about the immigrant aspect which also has to do with belonging.
Eric: Yes, it does, very much.
CV: It seems to filter through your company, your filmmaking process, and your character build.
Eric: Well, I think both Anna and I have felt at ease in many different surroundings but can also feel alienated as well. Perhaps it’s because we have both grappled with our dual identities. Anna’s an American but she was born and raised in Korea (until she was 8 years old) and is very attached to her Korean roots, to her Korean identity. Besides her nuclear family, her extended family on both sides are all in Korea. I grew up in an environment where French and American culture were both very important — I spent a lot of time in both places.
CV: When we hear you speak French we know that you are very French.
Eric: Yeah I spent a lot of time in Paris. Some say I even have a Parisian accent – whatever that means. Well, it means something.
CV: Sans accent. (laughs)
Eric: But there are different types of Parisian accents. I don’t know which type I have.
Eun-Me (Ho-Jung)
IV.
CV: Are there other filmmakers who you really love who are making films now?
Eric: Yes, to continue with the French influences there is Dominick Moll who is actually German but has had most of his career making films in France. He is a very interesting director whose films I like. They often have a thriller film noir aspect. Francois Ozon has made several good movies. I don’t like everything but he’s made some excellent films. And there are others. The Dardenne Brothers, who are actually Belgian, and the Korean director July Jung who directed A Girl At My Door a few years ago. That’s a film that I really connected with. Recently, Judas and the Black Messiah by Shaka King was a very powerful historical drama and I look forward to his next films. And, of course, there’s Ken Loach, who's been making films for a long time, but he’s still at it, and his films continue to move me.
CV: A good film also seems so much to be about rhythmic structure and creating a portal for the viewer to enter. You seem to have achieved this.
Eric: With STOCKADE, I considered the aesthetics of David Lynch and the Dardenne brothers (Jean-Pierre Dardenne and Luc Dardenne, collectively referred to as the Dardenne brothers, are a Belgian filmmaking duo. They write, produce, and direct their films together.) At first appearance, these filmmakers are totally opposite but working with my DP, Guy de Lancey, we thought of ways of synthesizing these styles while still using our own aesthetic. The Dardenne brothers are more naturalistic, and are often dealing with working class and immigrant characters. While their films are still composed, they are more in the lineage of cinema verité. I find what they do very gripping. But I’ve also liked Lynch’s films. Stylistically, he’s fascinating. And so is his twisted humor. He’s a master of Surreal Americana which is something I tried to adopt a little in my film. Lynch’s use of music is also impressive. Another filmmaker I’ve admired in the more stylized register is Peter Greenaway. His collaboration with Michael Neiman was very unusual. It was rigorous. Neiman’s music is more baroque than what we did in STOCKADE (composed by Alex Wakim), but the way Greenaway used music in The Draftsman's Contract, always stayed with me. That film is now forty years old, but it still resonates! I always wanted to create my version of Greenaway’s lyrical mechanism. And I finally did. (Laugh)
Zora (Bahar Beihaghi) meets with Ahlam (Sarah Bitar).
V.
CV: You worked on much bigger films as First Assistant Director. Did that inform your process in the making of your own features? Other than the obvious of knowing how to make a film. I mean in terms of how you direct your actors, and work with your team.
Eric: I was an AD on and off for many years and I definitely learned a lot of things. There’s no doubt. I learned about dealing with all kinds of crew members. That’s very important. I learned about dealing with actors to a certain extent. One thing I learned, especially when you’re dealing with modest budgets, and when you don’t have a lot of time, is that the rehearsal time, even if it’s not extensive, is really important. Because you can answer a lot of questions with your actors – work out a lot of problems before you get on set. Here, I’m referring to questions about the story, the character, questions about their motivation, about the way they’re dressed, and general behavioral tics. A lot of that is important to work out before you get in front of the camera because when you're doing a tight budget film you don’t really have the time if you want to get the shots you want to get and make the film you want to make.
CV: Also you have a background as an actor…
Eric: Yes, I do have a background as an actor. I have to say that acting is how I got into this crazy business. I was an actor in high school, I was an actor in college and I did some acting after college, professionally. I actually had a small part on stage in Paris, in a theater that is like a French Broadway theater, though the play wasn't a musical comedy. And I’ve done some acting and voice over work for other filmmakers. So that definitely helps to have had first hand experience. In fact, in STOCKADE, I put myself in a role.
CV: Yeah, you were good.
Eric: It’s a small role. Yeah, I like acting, even with the challenges of directing a film you are acting in. Unfortunately, you have to be sort of a masochist in this business whether you’re an actor or a director. Though the type of rejection you get as a director is a little different than the type of rejection you get as an actor. But, personally, I always like to act. I respect actors.
Keith (Guy Camilleri)
VI.
CV: You were saying, you also learned…
Eric: Well I also learned working on a lot of different films, working with a lot of different directors, you often learn what not to do —which is sometimes more valuable than what to do. Many films that I’ve worked on had more funding than STOCKADE, with more time and bigger crews. Having worked in those situations I learned the essential things of movie making; especially how to shape your story around what’s available to you. You know the old saying, necessity is the mother of invention
CV: Basically you’re saying when you’re crafting your film…
Eric: When I wrote the script for STOCKADE I knew that it was going to be a tight schedule and a tight budget — hopefully it comes off as a much bigger budget film than it is. When I wrote the script, I basically thought about what I had available to me, the actors and the locations that I had available. I wasn’t going to get expensive props or do crazy stunts, all that takes time and money. You just work with what you have. If you want to go back to the French New Wave filmmakers I mentioned earlier…they were often dealing with pretty tight budgets and they figured out how to make great films with limited means.
But it was a different time in cinema. A totally different era. France was coming out of WWII and there was a new economy and there was a desire for new French films and they were intent on breaking down the French film establishment. They were coming in with a new form of filmmaking, using lighter, more portable equipment, smaller, almost documentary crews.
I am still inspired by that methodology.
The equivalent in America would be the 70s films with people like Scorcese, Coppola, and De Palma. They quickly gravitated towards much bigger budgets…but initially they were reworking filmmaking. Even though they weren’t really part of that group, Barbara Loden, and John Cassavetes, among others, were key players in the movement to revamp filmmaking in the States. That period redefined filmmaking. Unfortunately, all that changed with blockbusters which came soon after. But there was that golden period where some great films were made that pushed boundaries and whose influence is still felt today.
Judy (Justine J. Hall); painting by Rachel Phillips
VII.
CV: The characters in this film all have a mysterious quality to them. It feels like it could develop into a series. Is that something you are interested in?
Eric: Well, I think in 2023, a filmmaker who is not interested in a series is really limiting themselves. That is where most narrative fiction is seen now, in a series form. Sometimes series tend to repeat themselves, and they’re often just filling time to get in the amount of episodes. Personally, sometimes I’m totally tired of the characters after a few episodes. But to say I would never be interested in a series is silly because I think there are some great series out there. Sometimes a series can become like one long feature or it can be a type of anthology set up, which is something I’m interested in. For example, I like Atlanta where they have a lot of the same characters but sometimes the episodes connect with each other or sometimes they are stand alone. Going back and forth narratively using that structure is interesting. Structurally, there’s a lot to work with. Like many of us in the last twenty years or so, I have been blown away by the limited series framework. So, I think STOCKADE could become a series.
Ahlam (Sarah Bitar)
VIII.
CV: Do you have another project that you’re working on now?
Eric: Yes, I have one project that I started working on several years ago. It’s not autobiographical but is connected to a world that I know well. It’s about an extended multi-racial family that gets together in Paris for the funeral of one of its key members. It has an Altmanesque quality where different characters weave into alternating story lines, which is very different from the last two films I’ve made where the story line was centered on one character. I want to film it in Paris. That’s a project that’s in the writing phase.
Another project that I would love to do as soon as possible, is my version of a “Southern Gothic.” Even though I’m not fully a Southerner, my father's side of the family was from the South and I spent time there. In this story, the protagonist is a male character who goes back to the South to deal with family issues, and over time, family lineage secrets are revealed.
IX.
CV: Eric, you have your own film production company, Veronique Films with your partner, Anna Sang Park, who is a filmmaker and director in her own right. When did you start this company?
Eric: We’ve been together for a long time, but we started Veronique Films in 2010. Anna produced Wallabout which was my first feature. And she’s the producer on STOCKADE along with Adam Vazquez. She’s also directed her own shorts, (a recent triptych is The Cho Stories that won awards at Middlebury). She’s had a career directing a lot of television mainly non scripted TV. All sorts of TV. She’s been in a writer’s room on an FX Show. That was before the writer’s strike. The series hasn't gone into production yet. And she’s got her own series project. She’s written the pilot and developing that as we speak. As I mentioned, Anna is a Korean immigrant so complex immigrant stories resonate deeply with her. I am half French, half American. My mother came here for work and ended up becoming an American and marrying an American. So she was an immigrant. We sometimes forget that there are all types of immigrants. So much of who I am is informed by my mother’s immigrant story.
WOODSTOCK FILM FESTIVAL INFORMATION :
STOCKADE w/ Q&A
Friday, September 29th⋅12:45 PM - 2:30 PM
@tinkerstreetcinema, Tinker St, Woodstock, NY 12498
STOCKADE w/ Q&A
Sunday, October 1st⋅4:00 PM - 5:45 PM
@rosendaletheatre, 408 Main St, Rosendale, NY 12472
Anna Sang Park is a filmmaker and also part of Peat and Repeat. Her award-winning short film trilogy, The Cho Stories, is distributed by 7Palms Entertainment. We will have an interview with her in an upcoming News essay.
Caterina Verde is an artist and curator. She co-founded Peat and Repeat and has launched other collective projects. She also has a small role in this film, STOCKADE.
STOCKADE FILM CREDITS:
Writer/Director/Producer: Eric McGinty
Producers: Anna Sang Park
Adam Vazquez
Executive producers:
Anna Sang Park
Lela Meadow-Conner
DP: Guy de Lancey
Editor: Nay Tabbara
Music: Alex Wakim
Sound: Samuel O’Sullivan
Art Director: David Raff
CAST:
Ahlam Sarah Bitar
Zora Bahar Beihaghi
Paul Guy de Lancey
Marta Paula Pizzi
Eun-Me Ho-Jung
Keith Guy Camilleri
Camille Caterina Verde
Richard Eric McGinty
Judy Justine J. Hall
Linton Michael Wiener
Layla Rawya El Chab
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